Booting Knoppix from CD-ROM on Windows XP machines

[world]

One of the great things about Knoppix is that you can carry a CD instead of a laptop. That is until Microsoft decided to eliminate the option of entering the BIOS at startup to set a machine to boot from the CD-ROM drive for Windows XP
It appears that the only way to accomplish this is to use the original Windows XP installation CD. It may not be possible to do this for machines, other than your own. Any known workarounds?

[UnderScore]

Please explain further. Some PCs make it difficult to access the BIOS while others are very easy. I don't see what Microsoft and/or Windows XP installation CD has to do with the BIOS.

[world]

In order to use the "live" Knoppix CD to boot Knoppix, the computer must allow the CD ROM to be used as one of the allowable boot devices. Computers running Windows releases prior to Windows XP allowed the user to do this by pressing an "F" key at startup. There is no such allowed "F" key for Windows XP. If a computer was not configured to allow the CD drive to be a startup drive when Windows XP was originally installed, then the user must use the original Windows XP installation CD to permit bootup from the CD ROM. Your computer---NO PROBLEM
Someone elses: PROBLEM!

[Harry Kuhman]

Worls, I don't think you're posting correct information. While Microsoft's nasty DRM has a long term goal of making sure that users can not run what software they want on their own computers, even if they write it themselves, and DRM will someday stop you from booting stuff that Bill Gates doesn't want you to boot, I don't believe we are there yet. I know of no system that is as yet this fully DRM encumbered. What system is it that you think cannot boot a CD without the blessing of XP? Give us a make and model please.

[UnderScore]

In order to use the "live" Knoppix CD to boot Knoppix, the computer must allow the CD ROM to be used as one of the allowable boot devices.

This is true.

Computers running Windows releases prior to Windows XP allowed the user to do this by pressing an "F" key at startup.There is no such allowed "F" key for Windows XP. If a computer was not configured to allow the CD drive to be a startup drive when Windows XP was originally installed, then the user must use the original Windows XP installation CD to permit bootup from the CD ROM. Your computer---NO PROBLEM
Someone elses: PROBLEM!

Within the last 1.5 hours, I have installed Windows 2000 Pro SP4 on a Compaq Deskpro EN Pentium III 866 MHz 512MB RAM machine. I have also installed Windows 98 SE on a Compaq Deskpro Pentium II--400Mhz 384MB RAM machine. In the first machine I disabled the CDROM drive a boot device in the BIOS. In the second machine I placed the floppy drive & the hard drive ahead of the CDROM drive in the boot order. The I placed a bootable Knoppix CD in the drives and then booted the PCs.

Upon bootup I hit a function F-Key. I started with F1 and worked my way through F12 and also hit the letter F for good measure. The Windows 2000 machine reposnded to F5 and F8 keys by bringing up a menu for selecting safe mode. On the Win98SE machine, hitting F5 at bootup forced the machine to boot to safe mode. Hitting F8 brought up a menu for selecting dafe mode. Neither F5 or F8 menus were able to boot the CDROM drive. I did not find any function key that might boot a CDROM.

Windows 2000 and Windows 98SE behaved as I expected. Neither OS allows the user to circumvent a BIOS setting. Some might claim that is wrong or is a bug while others might view it as a feature. I personally have never seen a Windows OS that allowed a user to bypass the OS and load from CD. It is possible it is outside of my realm of experience, but is not likely. I did not test Windows ME because I do not have it and I will not install Windows 95 or Windows NT 4.0 since they are too old.

[world]

Hello Harry and UnderScore and thank you for taking an interest in this and the time and effort to reply.
Specifically, my Windows XP machine is Dell Dimension 8300 running Windows XP Professional version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600. The BIOS version is Dell Computer Corporation A05, 2/23/2004
Windows came factory installed with the boot device set to \Device\HarddiskVolume2
In addition to a standard 1.44 MB floppy drive this system has a Samsung DVD/CD-ROM drive and a Samsung CD-R/RW drive. The result of placing a Knoppix 3.9 live CD in either of the CD drives is that the systems ignores the CD and boots to Windows XP Professional. I am confident that the reason Koppix doesn't boot is because the machine is not looking at the CD-ROM drive at all. In earlier versions of Windows, before XP, this could be remedied by pressing an appropriate function or "F" key at boot time which would take one to the BIOS where the machine could be set to boot from the CD-ROM drive first and if no boot disk was found, to then boot from the hard disk. By reading Microsoft's Knowledge base for Windows XP, I got distinct impression that the only way to change the boot device is to use the original Windows XP installation CD
There no longer is an "F" key that allows BIOS access to make this change at boot time. This is not a problem for me because I have the installation CD, but if I wanted to use another XP machine and didn't have the Installation CD and if that machine was configured like mine is, I wouldn't be able to boot Knoppix.

I also have a Windows 2000 system. There is absolutely no problem in booting Knoppix on it.

[UnderScore]

So this is probably a Dell issue & not a Windows XP issue.
I personally have worked with Dell OptiPlex systems for over 8 years. I have seen them do some very strange things but I do not ever recall being prevented from booting a CDROM drive.

If you so desire, Dell support has an updated BIOS for your machine. It is possible that this BIOS update will resolve this booting issue. If you take this action, be aware that you do so at your own risk and you should try to contact Dell (they have forums).

Release Title: BIOS: Dell Dimension System BIOS, English, Dimension 8300 / 8300N, A07
Release Date: 10/01/2004
Description: Dimension 8300 A07 System BIOS
ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/bios/D8300A07.EXE

The following changes have been made to BIOS rev A06 to create A07:

1. Fixed Quick Boot menu when no bootable drives are selected in SETUP.
2. Updated microcode for newer CPUs.
3. Fix corner case for the weekday auto-on setting.
4. Fix to the utility partition search code.
5. Improved keyboard test when booting from Hibernate.
6. Fixed possible hang after unplugging and re-plugging USB hubs.
7. Increased USB keyboard wait time to allow all USB devices being enumerated.
8. PXE Code Update for spanning tree issues.
9. Prevent false MCE errors from causing "bad CPU" error in POST.
10. Fix the Performance Processor detection/enabling.
11. Fix to the native HD ISR.
12. Added error check for 1394 memory base programming.
13. Disable /Enable PCI transaction timeout timer for slow cards.
14. Fixed memory size errors when changing the AGP aperture.

The following changes have been made to BIOS rev A05 to create A06:

1. Updated Copyright strings from year 2003 to year 2004.
2. Enable Utility partition to work on all internal IDE or SATA Hard Disk
Drives.
3. Enable Asset Tag to be modified remotely via CM studio or VB script.
4. Enable support for new Pentium 4 Processors.
5. Enable L3_Cache support.
6. Fixed RIS server failure when SATA HDD present.
7. Enable SMBIOS token for integrated NIC with RPL.
8. Fixed issue where some 3rd party keyboards cause a keyboard failure
error message.
9. Enabled support for VESA 4F09h function. Corrects system splash video
corruption with some AGP video cards.

[world]

Thank you for you patience and information about the BIOS update. Actually, I have resolved the problem. Here is how.
Using a Dell Inspiron 1100 laptop with the same version of BIOS and Windows XP as on the Dell Dimension 8300 I sucessfully booted Knoppix 3.9 from the CD. I had not tried that before but was encouraged to try it by your comments about the Compaq machine etc. What I was able to see on the laptop that was obscured on the other system was a startup message "Press F2 to enter system utilities" So, I tried that on the Dell 8300 machine and Voila, I found that the machine has a boot sequence that looks first at the floppy drive, second at the hard disk and third at the CD ROM. Using the keyboard I was able to move the CD ROM to the number 2 position, ahead of the hard disk, and the hard disk to number 3 Thinking that I was done, I put the the CD in the CD ROM drive and the machine still didn't boot Knoppix, truly a troubling result.
When I click on "My Computer" on the Dell 8300 In addition to the floppy and C: drive I see DVD Drive (D, and CD-RW drive (E. Since the Knoppix is on a CD I put it into drive E: to begin with and could not boot. So I thought maybe for some reason the Knoppix CD has to go into the DVD Drive (D on the Dell 8300. Believe it or not, that worked! Knoppix booted.
Summary:
1.) When booting on a Windows XP system press "F2" at bootup to enter the system utilities.
2.) Make sure that the CD boot device is ahead of the Hard Disk which should be the last boot device.
3.) If you have more than one CD, DVD drive on your machine make sure you are putting the Knoppix CD into the right drive.

[John_C]

Well, one thing is very true about this thread: the problem booting
from your CD is a DELL issue and nothing to do with any Microsoft
OS.

I have a small Dell in my fleet, with the F-8 option to invoke
a "Boot" menu after startup and it sort of works most of the
time.... but it doesn't like a USB device. Anyways, I just entered
the BIOS Menu (startup) with F-2 and changed the Boot order to
have the CD as the first device and no problem -- almost no problem.

I have 2 CD devices with the preferred Dell solution of Cable Select
instead of the Master/Slave setup and find the Dell setup a real pain.
As was stated previously, you have to put the CD in the Drive the way
Dell decides it wants as "the" CD Booting Device. Stranger than that,
once you boot up, the remaining CD drive acts very strange, even with
an excellent Distro like Kanotix. Guess I could try and find a solution,
but the computer does most of what I want to do. And of course the
built-in Intel video chip is another story..

Let me put it another way. If I only had an eMachine and a Dell to run
my Linux Distros in, I'd pick the eMachine. I doubt if Dell ever believed
anybody would run Linux on some of their computers....

Or maybe they were only designed to run Windows