Why Knoppix 3.4 is delayed again ...

[probono]

I think one should consider that by far the majority of users or students getting acquaited with Linux will be coming from a Windows background and from many countries. Therefore, apps that have versions that run on both OSes should stay (Mozilla, Firebird, OOo) and those only available on Linux should go (Koffice, etc.)

This would explain Linux to new users as a Windows clone (and Linux isn't very good as a Windows clone either). Instead, new users should be shown the advantages of Linux.

So, quite in contrast to the quote above, I would vote for leaving apps out that people already know from the Windows world.

OWN-CUSTOM-KNOPPIX

debix tries to do something like this: http://knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9706

[j.drake]

having DVD only is pointless and would kill knoppix.

Well, that's why I suggested at least keeping the existing CD ISOs up, possibly with less frequent updates for major releases. But seriously, it's pretty hard to argue that a DVD version of Knoppix 3.4 would be so incredibly devastating, given that Klaus himself was handing them out at CeBit like candy. I really can't imagine him working so hard to destroy his own creation.

The world is not flat, God doesn't care if we want to fly, the sky is not falling down, and Knoppix will survive if distributed in a DVD configuration. Trust me on this one.

[Fabianx]

having DVD only is pointless and would kill knoppix.

Well, that's why I suggested at least keeping the existing CD ISOs up, possibly with less frequent updates for major releases. But seriously, it's pretty hard to argue that a DVD version of Knoppix 3.4 would be so incredibly devastating, given that Klaus himself was handing them out at CeBit like candy. I really can't imagine him working so hard to destroy his own creation.

At CeBit that were CDs ...

There are DVDs isos for download [see in News] (unofficial, but heh) ...

cu

Fabian

[clinux]

[quote="Fabianx"]Hi,
I'm just back from vacation and want to inform you, why Knoppix is not out already:
1. We are over with 65 MB (KDE 3.2.1 is big!). So we need to delete some stuff, but what? (Proposals can be written based on last edition of 3.3 as programs almost remain the same, but get bigger ... :-/ )

---
i apology for my ¿english or spanglish ?
I propose to following:
create one CD BASE, with 2 or 3 WM examples , KDE, GNOME, BLANE2000
and One program for type, graphical and command line,
look remaster of kurumin or kalango for one idea

and create one CD APPS, with rest the program , this is form , if i need one program
of CD APPS , i make "apt-get cdrom" =)
(i am ¿thinking=[ in spanish is pensando]? in the people with not conecction to internet)

[savage]

Well, that's why I suggested at least keeping the existing CD ISOs up, possibly with less frequent updates for major releases. But seriously, it's pretty hard to argue that a DVD version of Knoppix 3.4 would be so incredibly devastating, given that Klaus himself was handing them out at CeBit like candy. I really can't imagine him working so hard to destroy his own creation.

The world is not flat, God doesn't care if we want to fly, the sky is not falling down, and Knoppix will survive if distributed in a DVD configuration. Trust me on this one.

I agree that having DVD for those who can burn DVDs would be better, but most people can't use it. Also just having outdated (and unpatched) software as your only CD isn't a good idea especially if someone wants to do a hard drive install.

While knoppix won't be gone for sure, people would move on to another live CD if it was DVD only. Not that anyone is seriously considering switching just to DVD.

[chAos]

I dont mean to be rude, but could we please at least get something released. The 2.6 kernel is what should help me install gentoo onto my raid, but they didn't put in on the 2004.0 live cd (bit stupid IMO).

Anyway, there no need for koffice if you've got open office. IMO, just remove things that shouldn't be needed for a liveCD. And release another version for people who want to put it on their hard drive.

[xav]

I use Knoppix for four different reasons:-

1) As a rescue disc - for this I need it to be CD based, have good drivers and compatability (e.g. having both 2.4 and 2.6 is an advantage), and useful tools for handling disks - e.g. fdisk, partimage. I do use QTParted in this case, as it is sometimes quicker/easier to work with a more graphical view of the partition layout.

2) As a diagnostic tool. Similar to the above, but usually with a greater emphasis on networking tools in my case.

3) As a portable environment. Combined with a USB key for my home, it means that I can quickly get a familiar and comfortable working environment on almost any machine. Many of the machines I use lack DVD drives. For this I like to have the software that I prefer to use on my normal desktop machine - OOo, Mozilla suite plus a few games (FreeCiv and a couple of card games).

4) As a demo to Windows users. The key selling points are OOo and Mozilla - they are easy to understand (a free equivalent to MS Office, a free equivalent to IE/Outlook), and there's the possibility for Windows users to switch to them without having to go down the Linux route (not everyone can or will switch, but OOo and Moz are great introductions to the world of Open Source).


Personally I'd lose KOffice (I never use it) and some of the I18N stuff (but then I'm a native English speaker). I'd also lose many of the games, but not all of them.

Regarding the I18N stuff - maybe we've just reached a point where localisation needs to be handled by local user groups for each release. Perhaps it would be sufficient to omit most of the languages, but provide detailed instructions (which could then be translated) about how to remaster for a different language set.

[Jack_]

Suggestion for a
HD install version and a LiveCD version.

The HD install version could have just the basics then users could apt-get the rest as needed, I'd bet most just use the CD for easy HD installs of Linux anyhow. Would cut DL time as well.

[pbk105]

I think one should consider that by far the majority of users or students getting acquaited with Linux will be coming from a Windows background and from many countries. Therefore, apps that have versions that run on both OSes should stay (Mozilla, Firebird, OOo) and those only available on Linux should go (Koffice, etc.)

This would explain Linux to new users as a Windows clone (and Linux isn't very good as a Windows clone either). Instead, new users should be shown the advantages of Linux.

So, quite in contrast to the quote above, I would vote for leaving apps out that people already know from the Windows world.

OWN-CUSTOM-KNOPPIX

debix tries to do something like this: http://knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9706

Well, I disagree. Most Microsoft users are going to fall back on their Windows experience to try to get a grip on Linux. At the university where I work, I have seen it many times already. You can't just push someone into Linux and command them to learn. To do it that way, you have to overcome tremendous resistance. They will always tend to fall back on some knowledge they already have. And what's wrong with that? I doubt anyone who can use Mozilla on Windows would think that Knoppix is just a clone because it too runs Mozilla. Ask a Mac fan if he thinks his fav OS is a Windows clone because it runs MS Office.

No one doubts that Linux doesn't do Windows well. However, doing Windows well seems to be the brass ring for the distros from what I see. Windows, whether you love it or hate it, is the benchmark by which many users AND creators of the various distros measure the usability and success of Linux because that is where most new Linux users are going to come from.

If a user can try out Mozilla on Windows and then knows the app will run on Linux too, then they already have some basis for understanding Knoppix. Open Office, winamp clones, etc, allow new users to jump right in and get some use out of the OS as well as move their documents, playlists, etc, back and forth without converting formats all the time. My point is, new KNoppix users will be in a transitory period and will be moving back and forth and comparing Knoppix to the OS to which they are familiar.

If I can run Open Office on my Windows box and my Linux box and move files back and forth seamlessly, what would be the benefit of running Koffice on Knoppix and having to convert (or risk a problematic conversion) to use the doc somewhere else?

Knoppix is water wings for the new swimmer. Probono, I fear that you just want to boot them into the pool and let'em sink or swim.

--Paul

[c123]

I think the most important thing is to reduce redundancy... Here's my take on some of the points raised:

1. CD only, and 1 CD only.
CD is the lowest common denominator. If there really is demand for a DVD version, then I'm sure someone will step up to satisfy it.
1 CD only, and 1 version only as making multiple versions (or a version spanning two CDs) requires too much maintenance.

2. Office Suites
Seems junking one of the two office suites is the easiest way to claim back some space. Personally I don't really care which one goes, and which one stays (going by the arguments given in the last ten pages, there are pros and cons for both).

3. Games
Gotta stay. I've never played any of them yet, but Knoppix is meant to appeal to a wide audience, and not just be 'work'/'rescue'.

4. Various Locale Support
Definately try to keep. Not eveyone has a good command of English of German, and it must be pretty impressive to have KDE in your native language when there isn't even a version of Windows for that language!

5. Development Tools
Keep, reduce redundancy (?), as with office suites.

6. Kernel
Get rid of the 2.4 kernel. I can't think of any real reason to keep it. alongside the 2.6 kernel.

7. All Other Categories
Reduce redundancy wherever possible, although leaving a choice (of two apps) if possible.

Anyway, I hope there's a 3.4 soon...